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When the Play is Over

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Ranya+++

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posted on Feb 27, 2010 - 06:33 AM

When the Play is Over

"Think of actors: they wear masks, they dress up. One looks like a philosopher while not being one; another seems to be a king but is no king; another appears to be a doctor and has not the faintest idea how to cure the sick; another pretends to be a slave despite being free; still another plays the part of a teacher yet does not even know how to write.
They do not appear as they are, they appear to be something else. The philosopher is a philosopher only because of his abundant but false wig, the soldier is a soldier just because he sports a military uniform. These disguises help to create an illusion, to hide the reality.
The world is a theatre too. The human condition, richness, poverty, power, subjection are merely the pretences of actors.
But when the day is done and the night falls (which, however, we ought to call day: it is night for sinners and day for the just), when the play is over, when we all find ourselves confronted with our own actions and not with our riches or dignity or the honours we have had or the power we have wielded, when we are asked to give an account of our lives and our works of virtue, ignoring both the feats of our opulence and the humility of our need, when we are asked: 'Show me your deeds!', then the disguises will fall and we shall see who is truly rich and who is truly poor."

St. John Chrysostom
Homily on Lazarus, 6, 5 (PG48, 1034)

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I've actually found this very helpful. I've struggled and am still struggling with this: the fact that people aren't what they seem to be. It's actually really hard for me to grasp at times.

Please share your thoughts if you have any.

Thanks.

Take care and God Bless,
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geomekhaiel

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posted on Mar 02, 2010 - 01:34 AM

Ranya,

This is definitely a deep contemplation which I enjoyed reading. Even after reading it I felt an urge to respond to it as an actor playing the part of the theologian or "man of understanding." However, I must admit that the message is clear, simply being that we are nothing more than mere sinners.

It is quotes like these that often revive the spirit and return it to its proper state of humility. Let us be convinced and take off our costumes and become "clothed with humility." No one has any real understanding and if they pretend to understand then they are fooled/entertained by their own acting. Humanity is nothing more than just a bunch of people who are each on a different level of stupid. Insulting, huh? Unfortunately it is very truthful. I often realize that I am the most stupid of all and this is proved every time I become an actor of understanding and wisdom.

All that can be done is to grow in humility and abstain from sin.

GBU and I pray that you continue to grow during Lent.

Thanks for the quote,
George Mekhaiel

....i think i may have done a bit of acting towards the end of my response. Forgive me.

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childoforthodoxy

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posted on Mar 02, 2010 - 05:59 AM

Greetings in our Lord, brothers and sisters in Christ!

I hope that this message finds you all well. I feel that it may be of benefit to us all if some clarifications were made, in hopes that we may grow in our knowledge of God and our proper relation to Him.

I agree that, indeed, we should take a deep, contemplative look into ourselves and determine who we really are in hopes of seeing our own weaknesses and striving to correct them with the strength of the Father, the humility of the Son, and the grace and guidance of the Holy Spirit. There are indeed those who are sojourners in this world who do have understanding, that which is real and true. Can we so easily say that the Fathers of the Church had no understanding? Truly, this is not the case. But the understanding which they had was granted to them by the Holy Spirit as they prayed in faithfulness to serve their congregations.

This is not so different from what we have today. If we truly believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church Fathers and has continued to guide our Church over the years, surely we can admit that the Holy Spirit guides people in our Church today. It is this understanding that is bestowed upon those who seek first the Kingdom of God, faithfully searching for Christ. Perhaps I am simply more of glass-half-full sort of person, but I do not see the people of the world as being stupid. We might say, though, that we have differing degrees of self-inflicted blindness, in which our eyes open as we sojourn closer to Christ in our hearts, minds, and spirits, seeing His Light shine on us all but more acutely perceived by those who open their heart's eye to look.

I think it is also important for us to realize that we are not called to debase ourselves in order to seek after humility. When God made Adam and Eve, He did not see them as stupid but as good. After Christ's Incarnation, Death and Resurrection, has mankind not been lifted up in a chance to achieve what it was that was lovingly and graciously bestowed on us, particularly through the Mysteries of Baptism and Chrismation? We are not stupid, but we are weak when we stand alone, when we stand apart from God, when we exclude Him from being an active participant in our lives, seeking to make His will our own. This is humility. This is the realization that I am a beloved creation of God, and though I am a sinner, and chief among you in this, I am only able to stand with the strength of God who supports me. I am ignorant when I choose not to do this, for what creation can find its purpose apart from its Creator? If we are readers of spiritual texts, striving to attain the understanding of the Fathers of the Church so that we may apply it in our lives, we are not feigning understanding. Know that it is not your light which reflects on those around you when you provide others with what you have learned, whether it be in word or action, but it is Christ who dwells within you and His light which reflects on you, you who submit yourself as a willing participant in His will.

I feel that we have a tendency to put ourselves down often in hopes of seeking Christ and His humility, but be strengthened in Him who offers you His strength, who calls you towards Him in perfect love as you seek to restore your relationship with Him by the path which He has established for us through His Church.

Pray for my weaknesses,
childoforthodoxy

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geomekhaiel

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posted on Mar 02, 2010 - 06:14 AM

Your point is well taken, however, I only have one question...

When contemplating on the infinite understanding of God, what human can claim to have any level of understanding?

Perhaps "stupid" is a bit improper, but then again, I don't know how often I am ever "proper." I don't mean it in a disrespectful way towards any of the fathers (whom I learn from and wish to emulate). However, when contemplating on the infinite wisdom of God I cannot imagine that anyone has any considerable level of understanding.

With the love of Christ,
George Mekhaiel

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childoforthodoxy

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posted on Mar 02, 2010 - 06:30 AM

George, I must firstly apologize as I hope that my post did not come across as a criticism, but rather as a means in which you and I and all of those who read this topic may grow together in the love of Christ.

I agree with you; if we are to compare ourselves with God... there is no comparison.

When I speak of understanding, I speak of that which has been revealed to us by God, in the Bible, in those entrusted to shepherd the Church, in the acts that the Holy Spirit leads us in. This understanding, then, is the acquiring of the Revelation of God to mankind and its subsequent integration into our actions, words and thoughts. I say integration not as though it is simply another component in us, but as something that we must immerse ourselves in. As I stated before, without Christ, I am nothing. With Christ, I am a part of His creation, an individual which must constantly strive to come nearer to Him, not by my own contemplations, but by the understanding that is imparted on us all by the Holy Spirit as a gift.

It is only through God that I may therefore find my purpose and meaning as an individual. It is only through Him that I may gain understanding, not because I elevate myself towards finding it by logic and reason, but because this understanding has been granted to us as is evidenced in the works of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Church.

Pray for me,
childoforthodoxy

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Ranya+++

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posted on Mar 05, 2010 - 04:21 AM

Hi Brothers:

Thanks for your comments. Smile If you liked this passage, there is plenty more where that came from. I obtained this quote from a book entitled: Drinking from the Hidden Fountain: A Patristic Breviary: Ancient Wisdom for Today's World by Tomas Spidlik.

The book contains a passage for each day of the year.

Here is a link to the book on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Hidden-F ... 445&sr=1-1

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Smile

Take care and God Bless,
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CopticSoldier

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posted on Mar 05, 2010 - 12:43 PM

From geomekhaiel:Your point is well taken, however, I only have one question...

When contemplating on the infinite understanding of God, what human can claim to have any level of understanding?

Perhaps "stupid" is a bit improper, but then again, I don't know how often I am ever "proper." I don't mean it in a disrespectful way towards any of the fathers (whom I learn from and wish to emulate). However, when contemplating on the infinite wisdom of God I cannot imagine that anyone has any considerable level of understanding.

With the love of Christ,
George Mekhaiel


Hi George,

ChildofOrthodoxy is making a really important point, the passage itself is from St John Chrysostom's On Wealth and Poverty and the point of this passage was that on earth Lazarus was poor and the rich man was rich but when they went to heaven it was reversed, the rich man was really poor because his treasure was on earth but Lazarus was rich because his treasure was in heaven. It was about how the perception we make on earth can sometimes be an act but this isn't always the case, there can be rich men who are also rich in heaven and poor men who are poor in heaven too.

What's important is not what we think of ourselves, what is important is what God thinks of us. When God looks at you do you what do you think he sees? I think He sees his beloved son and in the end isn't that the opinion that really counts? If I think I am sinner it is because the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that I am a sinner, I don't need to add, subtract or make my own judgements about who I think I am. Christ spent a lot of time conditioning the Apostles about how they ought to see themselves for this purpose.

St Paul went as far as saying that he knew nothing against himself - as far as he could tell he had no accusations he could raise against himself but he went on to say that he was not justified by that, he knew that there was one opinion that really counted and it wasn't his.

God bless you!

CS


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Ranya+++

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posted on Mar 06, 2010 - 05:01 AM

From childoforthodoxy:
This is not so different from what we have today. If we truly believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church Fathers and has continued to guide our Church over the years, surely we can admit that the Holy Spirit guides people in our Church today.


I got a chance to really read through everyone's posts. I have to sadly disagree with you on this point. I would like to hope that the Holy Spirit guides people in our Church today, but it doesn't always happen. I don't believe all people in our Church or any Church for that matter are guided by the Holy Spirit. As a result of this, people get hurt in Church.

Fr. George Rutler, a straightforward Catholic priest, once commented on his program titled, “Christ in the City” stating that some of the Catholic Churches have become more like theatres than Temples (Churches).

He also went on to say:

The Scholastic Theologians tell us that there are three criterions for what is truly beautiful:

1. Integrity: A thing has to be what it’s supposed to be. If the Church is anything less than the House of God, majestic and glorious, it’s not really a worthy House for God.

2. It has to have Proportion: It has to serve its purpose in an orderly way. Everything has to be harmonious.

3. Clarity: The Church has to make clear the glory of God. It has to make us glad when we are in it.

Will the Church raise souls in exalt and praise of God or will it be like a theater for our own entertainment? We have been seduced by a culture of entertainment. It’s reflected in many of the recently built Catholic Churches (Fr. George Rutler).

I think the same can be said for some of our Orthodox Churches.

I'm not an in depth reader of the writings of the Church fathers, but I love to read the passages written by the Church fathers. This particular passage really grabbed my attention because it underlined the fact that life is like a show or a theater. It’s very true. Life becomes like an illusion. It doesn’t become real anymore.

The people one meets aren’t who they appear to be. This makes sense to me.

I also think when St. John Chrysostom refers to richness and poverty, it doesn’t necessarily have to refer to the monetary aspect of it. We can pretend to be rich in talents, we can pretend to be rich in knowledge, we can pretend to be rich in kindness and completely be the opposite in reality. But our Lord sees everything.

I just loved reading this passage because it helped affirm many of the thoughts I’ve had about what’s surrounding me. It made me realize that I’m not the only one who feels this way. It made me feel like I’m not alone in my struggles—that the saints, our Church fathers know exactly what we are going through right now because they too have experienced it. It was a wonderful passage to read (I must of read it ten or more times).

Thank you all for contributing.

Take care and God Bless,
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childoforthodoxy

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posted on Mar 09, 2010 - 01:06 AM

Hello Ranya,

May God bless you in your efforts to come closer to Him, and may He bless the reading and subsequent expansion in love and faith that you undertake in doing so.

If you would allow me, I wish to say a few words in response to your post. I ask first, though, that you pray for me in my weakness, and that we all may grow together in the love of Christ within the Church that He has established for us.

Certainly, we must be consciously aware of our own selves first and foremost. If I attend a liturgy, do I do so as an active participant, as a member of the body of Christ, or am I there as a spectator? The distinguishing point of whether or not, as you state, the Church is an ark, bringing its flock to Christ and to salvation, or if it's a "theater" is what you do with it when you are there. The Church is the Church; it is a blessing that has been given to us, guided by the Holy Spirit, bringing us all together in unity with a common goal in mind: to lead and strengthen us in our struggle to achieve our own salvation. If I simply go to Church and "attend" a liturgy as though it is a movie or a play, what do I gain? The liturgy is the work of the people, the work that I myself must contribute to, through my own faith, or indeed, the lack thereof.

I do not believe that St. John Chrysostom meant for us to become incredibly cynical of those who are around us. I'm not saying that this is how you are, but I wish that we all prevent ourselves from traveling down this treacherous road of judgment. When I read something of the Fathers, something of this sort which seeks to address my own characteristics, my own heart, my own mind, I must direct it towards myself, not towards others. The Church is a hospital, and we are all afflicted with infirmities. What patient in a hospital, who is dying in their own disease, laughs and scoffs at the patient in the bed next to them, who is afflicted by either the same or a completely different disease? Surely, this would be seen as highly improper to do within the normal confines of society. How much more, then, are we at fault for doing this amongst ourselves? In being a member of the body of Christ, I must recognize my own weaknesses and become more acutely aware of the disease that afflicts me, the disease which finds its cure in Christ, in the Church.

The Church is indeed led by the Holy Spirit. Just because it's members may be sick does not mean that the Holy Spirit is absent. If I go to a hospital and look in the rooms, what kind of people do you suppose I'd find? If they were all healthy, they wouldn't be in the hospital to begin with. I don't think it would be right of me to come in to such a hospital and, upon finding sick patients in the rooms, say that there are no doctors that are present. The Holy Spirit is no where near absent from our Church, as our Church is alive with His blessings and His guidance. There are those whom the Church has entrusted towards guiding its flock, whether it be anyone from a servant of the children to the patriarch himself. The Holy Spirit works through each one of these, and truly, each one of us, if we allow Him to. There are times when those whom we look to for guidance seem, in our own eyes, to steer away from what we see to be the correct path. Do not let this shake your faith, nor let it make you think that God is no longer found in the people of the Church. Again, as we are all human beings, we are all afflicted with infirmities.

It is easy for me to look at those around me and say that they are all sinners, committing horrendous sins against God, and that they will be judged justly in the end of times... it would be easy to say this, but no one said that Orthodoxy would be easy. I must struggle against this temptation of judgment. I must focus on myself. If I look towards others, it is not with an eye of judgment, but an eye of sympathy and empathy, an eye that comes with a heart filled with love, a love that seeks to raise us all together towards God.

St. John Chrysostom did not preach simply to criticize people in their ways, but he did so with love, a love that sought to bring them to the awareness of their infirmities. If I do not think myself to be sick, I will never go to the hospital. His guiding words were not meant to put everyone in an eternal state of shame and despondency, but to turn the light on in each of our minds and hearts, so that we may see how we ourselves, as individuals, are sick and seek healing through God and the Church which He guides on earth. Who am I, then, to look around and point a finger at others? It is my own self that I need to focus on. I must look towards those around me with love, otherwise, where is Christ in my sight? He must permeate all aspects of my life.

Let us all pray for one another, we who are sick, and seek nourishment and health by the love of the Father, the shepherding of the Son, and the continuing guidance and love of the Holy Spirit, through the Church which was given to us by Christ and perfected in the Holy Spirit.

childoforthodoxy

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Ranya+++

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posted on Mar 11, 2010 - 05:51 AM

From childoforthodoxy:
I do not believe that St. John Chrysostom meant for us to become incredibly cynical of those who are around us. I'm not saying that this is how you are, but I wish that we all prevent ourselves from traveling down this treacherous road of judgment.


Well, you're right we have no right to judge others. Judgment is reserved for God alone. However, if one finds him or herself seeing others doing things in Church that are wrong but those individuals are somehow being praised, something is very wrong with this scenario.


From childoforthodoxy:
When I read something of the Fathers, something of this sort which seeks to address my own characteristics, my own heart, my own mind, I must direct it towards myself, not towards others.


Yes, you are right, but the Church Fathers also provide us with insightful information about the people around us too.


From childoforthodoxy:
The Church is a hospital, and we are all afflicted with infirmities. What patient in a hospital, who is dying in their own disease, laughs and scoffs at the patient in the bed next to them, who is afflicted by either the same or a completely different disease? Surely, this would be seen as highly improper to do within the normal confines of society. How much more, then, are we at fault for doing this amongst ourselves? In being a member of the body of Christ, I must recognize my own weaknesses and become more acutely aware of the disease that afflicts me, the disease which finds its cure in Christ, in the Church.


What if the hospital didn't function as a hospital? What if the hospital appeared to be a hospital but was really turning into something else? We are all sinners, but there is a difference between a sinner who goes to Church (the hospital) to get better verses the sinner who goes to Church for other reasons or motives.

Now, say there is a patient in the hospital who is taking their medicine and is being properly treated (this patient is doing well). Say there is another patient in the same hospital who isn't taking their medicine. This patient is now walking around trying to infect others with his or her disease. This patient goes around coughing and sneezing on other patients. This in turn starts hurting these patients who are trying to get well.

I’m saying that there are consequences for our actions. There are consequences for our sins. We can all say we are sinners, but if we try to justify our sins by merely saying we are sinners, while not putting forth the effort to change, then there is a real problem. We severely hurt ourselves, and we end up hurting others around us too.

We always focus on saying we are sinners, but we forget to also focus on the fact that we can overcome those sins with the help of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. We forget how strong we really are. On our own we are weak, but in Him we are strong, very strong.

From childoforthodoxy:
The Church is indeed led by the Holy Spirit. Just because it's members may be sick does not mean that the Holy Spirit is absent. If I go to a hospital and look in the rooms, what kind of people do you suppose I'd find? If they were all healthy, they wouldn't be in the hospital to begin with. I don't think it would be right of me to come in to such a hospital and, upon finding sick patients in the rooms, say that there are no doctors that are present. The Holy Spirit is no where near absent from our Church, as our Church is alive with His blessings and His guidance. There are those whom the Church has entrusted towards guiding its flock, whether it be anyone from a servant of the children to the patriarch himself. The Holy Spirit works through each one of these, and truly, each one of us, if we allow Him to. There are times when those whom we look to for guidance seem, in our own eyes, to steer away from what we see to be the correct path. Do not let this shake your faith, nor let it make you think that God is no longer found in the people of the Church. Again, as we are all human beings, we are all afflicted with infirmities.


This is true; however, if people “steer away” from the “correct path,” there is a consequence for that. People will negatively be affected by this. Again, this goes back to remembering that there are consequences for our sins. If we truly realize there are consequences for our sins, many of us will immediately stop sinning (no question about it). The problem with this is the devil blinds us from seeing what those consequences are, or he doesn’t show their negative effects right away.

From childoforthodoxy:
I must struggle against this temptation of judgment. I must focus on myself. If I look towards others, it is not with an eye of judgment, but an eye of sympathy and empathy, an eye that comes with a heart filled with love, a love that seeks to raise us all together towards God.


I know you do a good job of defending us sinners, but what about our Lord? If we don’t do things according to His will, we are as one priest mentioned “turning our backs on God.” If we “man-handle Him, mishandle Him,” we are committing the gravest of all sins. I am not going to have the same point of view as yourself. I’ve had different experiences. I see things through different lenses.

From childoforthodoxy:
St. John Chrysostom did not preach simply to criticize people in their ways, but he did so with love, a love that sought to bring them to the awareness of their infirmities. If I do not think myself to be sick, I will never go to the hospital. His guiding words were not meant to put everyone in an eternal state of shame and despondency, but to turn the light on in each of our minds and hearts, so that we may see how we ourselves, as individuals, are sick and seek healing through God and the Church which He guides on earth. Who am I, then, to look around and point a finger at others?


The issue at stake here is not criticism. The issue at stake is viewing a serious problem that needs to be fixed. St. John Chrysostom viewed problems that needed to be fixed. In his pure heart, he wanted these problems to be fixed and gave solutions to those problems.

Thanks for the discussion.

Take care and God Bless,

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lowlyman

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posted on Mar 12, 2010 - 07:50 PM

From Ranya+++:
Life is like a show or a theater. It’s very true. Life becomes like an illusion.


hi Ranya,

if I may restate what you said as follows:

Life in SIN is like a show or a theater. It’s not real. Life becomes like an illusion and will most certainly lead to spiritual death. in the Gospel, we have few examples of those who lived this life: the Richman in the Lazarus parable, the prodigal son, and maybe even Judas.

it's also true that as you live your life, you experience this aspect of of it and turned back to God. In this sense, the stories of the Bible perfectly apply to a particular situations. Hence, we are the prodigal son, etc.

without sin, life is a taste of the kingdom.I hope that this helps.

From Ranya+++:From childoforthodoxy:
This is not so different from what we have today. If we truly believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the Church Fathers and has continued to guide our Church over the years, surely we can admit that the Holy Spirit guides people in our Church today.


I got a chance to really read through everyone's posts. I have to sadly disagree with you on this point. I would like to hope that the Holy Spirit guides people in our Church today, but it doesn't always happen. I don't believe all people in our Church or any Church for that matter are guided by the Holy Spirit. As a result of this, people get hurt in Church.

Fr. George Rutler, a straightforward Catholic priest, once commented on his program titled, “Christ in the City” stating that some of the Catholic Churches have become more like theatres than Temples (Churches).

He also went on to say:

The Scholastic Theologians tell us that there are three criterions for what is truly beautiful:

1. Integrity: A thing has to be what it’s supposed to be. If the Church is anything less than the House of God, majestic and glorious, it’s not really a worthy House for God.

2. It has to have Proportion: It has to serve its purpose in an orderly way. Everything has to be harmonious.

3. Clarity: The Church has to make clear the glory of God. It has to make us glad when we are in it.

Will the Church raise souls in exalt and praise of God or will it be like a theater for our own entertainment? We have been seduced by a culture of entertainment. It’s reflected in many of the recently built Catholic Churches (Fr. George Rutler).

I think the same can be said for some of our Orthodox Churches.

I'm not an in depth reader of the writings of the Church fathers, but I love to read the passages written by the Church fathers. This particular passage really grabbed my attention because it underlined the fact that life is like a show or a theater. It’s very true. Life becomes like an illusion. It doesn’t become real anymore.

The people one meets aren’t who they appear to be. This makes sense to me.

I also think when St. John Chrysostom refers to richness and poverty, it doesn’t necessarily have to refer to the monetary aspect of it. We can pretend to be rich in talents, we can pretend to be rich in knowledge, we can pretend to be rich in kindness and completely be the opposite in reality. But our Lord sees everything.

I just loved reading this passage because it helped affirm many of the thoughts I’ve had about what’s surrounding me. It made me realize that I’m not the only one who feels this way. It made me feel like I’m not alone in my struggles—that the saints, our Church fathers know exactly what we are going through right now because they too have experienced it. It was a wonderful passage to read (I must of read it ten or more times).

Thank you all for contributing.

Take care and God Bless,
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Ranya+++

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posted on Mar 15, 2010 - 02:50 AM

From lowlyman:
without sin, life is a taste of the kingdom.I hope that this helps.


Hi lowlyman:

Thanks for your post. What you wrote is very true.

Thanks again. Smile

Take care and God Bless,

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