coptichymns.net - Sharing the Joy of Coptic Hymns Around the World

garywbush

posted on Dec 17, 2008 - 09:56 AM

At this link:

http://www.coptichymns.org/PNphpBB2-vie ... 6.html#top

I read some hypocrisy!.


Greetings,

It would have been better if Mikokiko had addressed his reservations with courtesy and to have framed his disputes with a certain moderation, but he expresses himself like a zealous and impetuous youth, slinging various arguments wildly, and lacking a staid and sober character. One could respond point by point to his various condemnations, but not without taking a defensive posture, and thereby forfeiting the equality of our "dialog". Anyway, the discussion has descended from theology and metaphysics to a comparison of "facts", "abuses", and the parroting of propaganda. Kareem's patient writings are wasted on Mikokiko, who is here to score points for his team and not to understand Islam. If no serious discussion is forthcoming I propose we take out leave.

Cordially,
Adam


Adam, your leader, Shenouda III and His Synod of Bishops have regularly insulted Saint Nestorius (peace be upon him) and the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church of the East (Aka the Nestorian Church), yet they ex-communicate any Copt who insults Prophet Mohamed or Islam in public in Cairo or elsewhere. Remember, the Coptic priest Zakaria who was suspended for challenging Islam?

This is not only hypocrisy but proof Copts do not have love but hate - yes, deep hatred for Nestorians.

To the rest, Nestorians like Muslims confess the same thing "God did nor die". This is an apostolic formula held by the Church fathers who lived before Saint Nestorios, including Saint Ignatius of Antioch, Saint Aphrahat the Persian Sage, Saint Ephrem the Syrian, and above all Saint Diodore of Tarsus.

I hope the moderators like Paul S. will publish this post and I hope it is not offensive and written in the spirit of ecumenical dialogue. I apologise if this post has hurt any Copt, but I am deeply hurt by the Coptic Church which condemns the Nestorian Church, yet forgets it was also condemned the same way by Chalcedon.
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Joined: Aug 30, 2006 | Posts: 57

garywbush

posted on Dec 17, 2008 - 10:09 AM

Please visit http://www.peshitta.org/forum to join discussion about Assyrian Church and why Nestorianism is the true Apostolic faith.

Copts are invited, and please do so, as we want some Copts.

Joined: Aug 30, 2006 | Posts: 57

David_the_King

posted on Dec 17, 2008 - 12:29 PM

What is your premise? What point are you making? No disrespect, but what hypocracy do you see about the Coptic Church?

Where are you getting that the Coptic Church loves Islam?

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mikokiko

posted on Dec 17, 2008 - 03:32 PM

Someone please close this thread it is pointless, and unintelligible. If you're going to make a point, make it so people understand what you are saying.

GB

Joined: Feb 11, 2003 | Posts: 1348

PaulS

posted on Dec 18, 2008 - 04:42 AM

Hello,

At the beginning, I want to make it very clear that it is not the Coptic Orthodox Church which anathematized Nestorius, but rather, a holy council of bishops who recognized that his teachings were heresy. Consequently, I don't think it is fair to somehow blame our Orthodox Church or its leaders for not accepting someone who was unfortunately a heretic.

Second, the Coptic Orthodox Church generally treats the followers of Nestorius and Mohammed the same: it does not admit them into the faith or allow them to partake of the Divine Mysteries. This is the same response that other Orthodox Churches have, as well as the Catholic Church and others. I therefore don't see any difference in treatment of the two groups.

Before you make such strong accusations, you have to understand that Nestorianism is a Christian heresy that caused many to stumble and was ultimately dealt with by a council. For this reason, the Church has every right to educate her children about this heresy and keep them safe so that they may not stumble as well. Islam, on the other hand, is not a Christian religion; it is faith that borrowed heavily from Judaism and Christianity, but whose end result does not resemble either one. In light of this, the Church does not treat Islam the same way it would treat Nestorianism. Also, for political reasons (i.e., harmony with the other 90% of the Egyptian population), the Church seeks to have a good working social relationship with the government and leaders of Islam. This is different from a relationship of faith. I think it is clear to everyone that Islam and the Orthodox Church as faiths are incompatible. People choose one or the other. However, when you're talking about two Christian faiths that appear similar to the untrained mind, you have a completely different situation. I think that is the best answer to your point above.

Finally, as regards Chalcedon, the Coptic Orthodox Church as a whole was not excommunicated or treated as a heretical church. Rather, it was one of our patriarchs, who is a saint and defender of the faith, who was betrayed and cast out for reasons that had nothing to do with his faith or the faith of the Church. I think it is quite illuminating that the bishops who led Chalcedon (and those who follow Chalcedon now) have tried their utmost to reconcile their views with the great saints and defenders of faith that came from the Coptic Orthodox Church (Saints Athanasius, Cyril, and Theophilus to name a few.) Time and time again, when you look at the development of the Christian faith and doctrine, you will see that the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria is at the forefront. In light of this, I highly encourage you to revisit the writings of Saint Athanasius and Saint Cyril before making such a comment about Chalcedon.

God be with you,
ps

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mikehenry

posted on Dec 18, 2008 - 05:21 AM

garywbush,

Sorry, this is somewhat off-topic to the thread, but I figured that it might be useful...

Adam's "leader" is not exactly His Holiness Pope Shenouda III but Muhammad, seeing that Adam identifies himself as a Muslim and not as a Coptic Orthodox.

P4m,
Mike

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Peter

posted on Dec 18, 2008 - 03:12 PM

Folks are you all familiar with the concept of a net troll. Do not feed the troll.

Or to put things into less secular terms, Matthew 7:6.

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David_the_King

posted on Dec 19, 2008 - 12:04 AM

Thanks a lot, Peter!

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